Wednesday, December 20, 2006

There's no wine on this menu

Fellow Ultra Runners, I'd like to hear from you regarding fueling during a 100 mile ultra. My Ultra staple fuels have been multi-grain tortillas with peanut butter, perpetuem (carbo & protein drink by hammer gel). At the aid stations my three favorites are red potatoes, pb&j on bread, and soup broth. I don't drink the electrolyte drinks on the course because they taste like camel piss and upset my stomach. I have been taking e-caps but I'm in the process of switching over to s-caps. With the exception of the electrolyte drinks I'm open to most foods and tend to be able to eat quite a bit of food in a short time at aid stations.

All that said, please tell me what works for you on 50 milers and 100 milers.
Thank you in advance for your advice!

P.S. - Knee is progressing slowly but I'm starting to go a little nuts since my longest run has only been about 4 miles over the last week and a half.


olga said...

First, about your 4 mile run - don't worry! I dug out Scott's schedule he made for my WS in 2005, and this week was supposed to be 4 days a week runs with longest 1.5 hr. You'll be on track in no time.

Fuel. S-caps are a must, once every 1.5 hr in hot weather. Some eat more, but I also use e-Crank gels with high sodium, so no need. I drink Carbo-Pro, my stomach takes it better, but used to Perpetium as well. P has some protein, so if I do take it, I try to do it in a fist few hours, while still capable to process heavy stuff.
Boiled potatoes go well, but also only in a few hours from the start (my stomach is too delicate, and I can't chew on the run). Soup and broth are life savers! Also for a 100 consider coffee twice (for WS - Foresthill and Brown's Bar). Flat coke is coffein before dark, works well. Potato chips could fly. No simple sweets - crash and fall too fast. Rob drink Ensure, and I did before, now it's too heavy for me as well, but you can sample it on training runs. There are organic vegan power bars that are very easy to swallow and digest, check out Jurek's site.
Basically, I go simple (brain is dead too on those runs): Carbo-Pro, gels, water and soup.

mtnrunR said...

First you have to do what works for you! Practice in long runs what you are going to do on race day. That is what is important.

Yes, throw the E-caps out. They are worthless. You get more sodium in drinks than you get in the capsuls. I take a little more than Olga but that is me.

Beans. I use them. Craig (former M10) Ticer (former M6) my brother, 5th at AC, Meghan (miss F8) all eat them. A little protein, lots of carbs, and good source of salt. Just an idea.

Some like sandwiches. Of course PB&J. Turkey also comes to mind.

The most important thing in a 100 is don't waist your time at aid stations! I leave IMMEDIATLY after the bottles are full. DON'T GRAZE. GET OUT OF THERE.

Heck, just peeing alone waists 30 minutes in a 100. O.K., guys have it easy, we can pee on the run. But potentially 30 minutes alone can be lost just on bathroom breaks.

Like Olga, Vegan bars are good. Easy to carry, eat, chew, along the trail. I would avoid the chocolate chip variety at States. That is unless you want chocolate all over your face coming into aid stations. (I've done this, quite funny.)

I too use crank products. The problem is the taste sucks. But then again I eat anything along the way because I don't care about taste. All I care about is calories. Can't drive the car without gas in the tank.

Heck some do only electrolytes, gu, and S-caps only for 100's.

Keep things simple. My brain turns to mush when running. I am just the "Dumb Runner" as Kyly says. Let your crew/pacers do the thinking for you.

Remember, States is not the hardest 100 by far. But you will be guaranteed one thing...HEAT. O.K. three years ago it only got 80 degrees in the canyons, one of the highest finishing rates ever. But last year it was 110 degrees in the canyons and still 85 at midnight. The lowest finishing rate in 20 years.

Remember having your stomach upset might happen. Hurling might happen. (after all I did 14 times at States last year. Kyly loved the prjectile vomit show down Cal street. (trail, not street.)) But you can't drive the car without fuel in the tank. You will need calories, about 300 an hour.

Lastly, I was looking at your schedule. Good. Also consider Miwok 100k, all the big guns show up to that one. Just great timing because it is the first week in May. Also, consider the training camp Memorial Day weekend. 30 miles on Saturday, 20 on Sunday, 20 on Monday. And all on the States course! Just some ideas thrown your way.

You have lots of ultra friends. Leach of them. (but you already know tons also.) We all do things differently. Just like shoes, what works for one might not work for the other.

The best advise that I can give you is do what works for YOU. And PRACTICE in training what you are going to do on race day.

Also, what kind of milage build up are you shooting for? Just curious.

You will do great and you have a great crew to kick you to the finish.


mtnrunR said...

Oh, just for fun. The next time you hurl in a race don't break stride. Your pacers will love it. Kyly loved the projectile vomit show all the way down to the river....... 14 times she got to laugh. And yes, didn't break stride on any of them. What fun we had.

mtnrunR said...

Oh, John and James specifically moved the date last year for the Capital Peak 50 miler for one reason the year before it was two weeks before States if I remember right. Clem was the only one that was in States that ran that day and I think he might have only done the 50k.


olga said...

Nope, I ran a 50 miler that day, 2 weeks before WS:) It worked great. But I agree, CP50 in April is a great substitue for Miwok, although rumor is Eric has a reason not to do it.

mtnrunR said...

Opp's I forgot about the "machine" Olga, sorry about that. I did both Capital Peak 50 miler last year and Miwok. I thought it worked great. Soooo dang much running at Miwok though. Not hardly a hike out there by the Golden Gate.

Journey to Centum said...

Thanks for all the advice so far! Olga - I've got the Eugene Marathon planned on the same weekend as CP50. Do you think that running a double that weekend would be a good idea? I'm willing to hear your advice and others on this.


Journey to Centum said...

Tom - I've never had to projectile vomit on any length of run I've been on but I will make it a goal to stay on stride if the opportunity presents itself.


olga said...

Do the double. Make sure you go both at easy pace. Don't shoot for any PR. Eugene should be in a range of 4-plus hours. CP - hike all the ups in first half untill mile 37, then see what's left. Second half should go at LT pace. This is the weekend that calls for it by Scott's plan, so it should work fine, but ONLY if you can control yourself. Better yet - run with Michelle first half of a marathon, but then pull away, because eventually it will be time on your feet.

olga said...

Actually, I rather see you do CP, but I understand your desire to run inagural marathon. Think of a big goal. Plan smart.

mtnrunR said...

Remember the big goal. I had many PR's leading up to States but really they were done without a taper what so ever. They were done on 100+ mile weeks. All were just training runs with practicing what I was going to do on race day.

As far as doing a double with CP and Eugene that is fine. Just don't beat yourself up so you have to take time off afterwards. During that time I only took two days off in two months with doubles five days a week.

But again, you need to make it your own training plans. You need to do what works for YOU. I can't keep up with Olga. I wish I could but I can't do what she does. She is just too strong of a runner.

Just remember the goal. To have a good time at States and Jam after Foresthill. That is when the racing starts. "let's start racing" is what I told Kyly when we left Foresthill last year. (yes, even a slow guy like me thinks he can race once in a while.

I will be there taking ton of picures. I have just bought a 35mm SLR digital. No, not as nice as Glenn's but close. I will be watching you and my brother who will be getting after it for a top ten finish.

You will do great. I look forward to watching you.

Be healthy and eat well. You will do great.
tom riley

robtherunner said...

Holy Crapola! This is a lot of good advice and I am going to stay out of it because with my fueling record I would most likely just screw you up. I am a fueling disaster.

Me and Steve worked on our pacing skills today as he held my water bottles as I tied my coat around my waist. I am sure this will come in handy at states, however, you probably won't be wearing a coat. Just a hunch.

runliarun said...

I read this some time ago, and thought I had nothing to say here, after all I just learned the concept of "ultra" a couple of months ago, and then I am pretty clueless when it comes to fueling, I sometimes go out to run 10 miles or more with nothing in my stomach and just a bottle of water on me. But my mind, on its own, kept circling back to your question, and the same thing always comes to mind. So here it is, for whatever it's worth: dates. They are sweet, mild, rich and lean at once, pure condensed energy, and were the provision of choice for bedouins when they prepared to cross the desert.

Oh well - I hope this is not complete nonsense.

Steve said...

Be careful of fruit (fructose), it doesn't digest well with a higher level of activity. I read Kouros ate only mild cheese during one world record and mostly sweats in other runs (see link). The Tarahumara eat mostly corn tortillas, beans and goat cheese. In both cases, this is a normal part of their diet. The common factor supported by reseach seems to be high carbs (simple), some protein, and little fat. I think your current approach fits that pretty well. Consider what you like, and try it out. I'm looking forward to learning with you.

P.S. Orange juice with honey, salt tablets and dexrose cubes is not good. That was my bad choice on a marathon 30 years ago.

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